Thoughts on this Series 2 Lemania Single Pusher chronograph

[eugeneandresson]

Hi guys

I'm rather new to the world of vintage military watches.
I have been offered the following watch, and am still in a phase of negotiations with the owner. @tapaptpat has been a fantastic help in guiding me (a million thanks Pat). I would, however, appreciate more opinions on this watch.

This is what I have gathered:

Series 2 (with hexagonally notched caseback with AF XXXXX markings - inscription on the inside is 28ET 63)
Signed Lemania 2220 movement
Dial : silver

My concerns / questions :

Are AF markings to be expected on Series 2 SAAF? The website of Rikus Basson is not very clear.
2220 movement in series 2 'ok'? I believe this goes into the series 3 asymmetric cased variants...but could imagine a transitional period of mixed parts...
Dial lume is very dirty ... I believe a lot of these were redialed/relumed from radium to tritium...does anybody know of any cases where the radium was left? I have not yet seen a dirty dial like this on one of these...could this be radium?
Am I missing anything else?

Also : how rare/sought after are these? I am having difficulty putting a figure on it...to me the dial is worth 2/3rds the value of the watch, and this one is tired, looks like it has some damaged on the rim, and the minute counter sub register has a dirty mark (looks like it might be from the hand, I could even imagine radium burn, but have no idea if these hands were coated). I am trying to come up with a fair price for this condition (but care more about not missing anything, and have a correct historical piece)...

One other thing I am trying to understand : these movements are dated to the 50's (or earler), but the dials are marked 't swissmade t' ... anybody care to elaborate?

A thread is useless without pictures...



Thanks guys for your time and consideration. All feedback welcome.

Cheers,
E

[river rat]

A case back shot with the issue marks mite help with our thoughts on this.

[eugeneandresson]

A case back shot with the issue marks mite help with our thoughts on this.

here we go. should have done this last night -> out of respect for the owner I obscure the last 2 digits (and the SN on the movement is unfortunately not really legible).

[river rat]

Same marking on this Lemania 5012 looked in a few books and looked on the net nothing found on your model Lemania with those marking but if real it was issued in South Africa.
Rare Bird: Lemania 5012 SAAF (South African Air Force)

[eugeneandresson]

Thanks. More interested in the case/caseback/movement/dial combination (Ie is it kosher)...

[DaveS]

Hi there
I see no great problem with this watch.
Lemania made their chronograph movements with the same dimensions to be interchangeable, so the later Cal220 movement does fit.
In service all sorts of swaps were made, dials, movements, casebacks etc etc.
The dial is original and fine, it is likely to be over 60 years old, so some age is indeed desirable, as it is improbable that the watch saw any active life without some aging.
I believe this is original lume, but not necessarily radium. It is certainly not damaged enough to have been one that was stripped off another watch, and not perfect enough to have lived in a sealed box in the stores for its whole life.
The mark on the 3 subdial is corrosion from the hand being left static there in the presence of moisture.
I would normally expect the counterpoise on the chrono-second to have the teardrop on.
Sewn on strap, or springbar replacement? I cannot see to be sure
Crown looks okay, but the pictures are not very detailed.
I am reluctant to give buying price advice, as so much depends on things not presented here (the seller, provenance, service history etc).
But, in general I see no problem with the combination of elements, and I think the dial is lovely. If it were pristine, it would devalue it for me.
Chronosecond hand is the only replaced element here, for me.

Dave