Genuine AMI ?

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    Default Genuine AMI ?

    Hi Guys

    I need your expert help/guidance on the authenticity of this 1970's Lemania AMI issued watch:



    and 5100 movement shot:



    Looks very similar to a heuer carrera 510.523 & 5100 movement (but with the choice of a day/date setup dial):



    but with the case of a heuer 510.513 (strap fitment to case) ?



    So , what do you reckon...? Genuine or fake ?

    Many Thanks
    Neil
    Last edited by flame; 22-11-2009 at 15:32.

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    To my knowledge, a complete put-together.
    Lemania did do a 5100 AMI, as well as Heuer, but only in the Heuer AMI case, which is more akin to the Sinn 157 (or the Bund Tenglers and Arctos', same difference).
    Any caseback piccies. to see whether a decent job has been done on any engraving, or whether it is hilariously bad, as many sych offerings are?

    I recall something like this being offered on EBay Italy a while back, at a pretty price too, is it back on the market?

    D
    If it's Lemania-powered, I'm interested. Tool Chrono - interested. Dive Chrono - interested. Interesting - interested

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    The (3H) looks a little odd too.
    Shame, I quite like the overall design...
    M
    Your bleeding-edge Now is always someone else’s past. Someone else’s ’70s bellbottoms. Grasp that and start to attain atemporality.

    the #watchnerd

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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveS View Post
    To my knowledge, a complete put-together.
    Lemania did do a 5100 AMI, as well as Heuer, but only in the Heuer AMI case, which is more akin to the Sinn 157 (or the Bund Tenglers and Arctos', same difference).
    Any caseback piccies. to see whether a decent job has been done on any engraving, or whether it is hilariously bad, as many sych offerings are?

    I recall something like this being offered on EBay Italy a while back, at a pretty price too, is it back on the market?

    D
    Hi Dave

    Yep - ebay italy - item number 220513932944

    I thought it 'looked good' , however , I couldn't pin it down as a genuine model and could only come up wth AMI version you mention - and I wasn't 100% happy with the dial / case combi - as I've tried to describe above.

    Anyway , think I'll give it a miss....

    Cheers Neil

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    Looks like the case of a Heuer Cortina LINK HERE




    Of the ones I have seen they normally look like a Tengler case like this one of Geoff Stein's from OTD more stuff at OnTheDash HERE LINK




    I just checked On the Dash for comments and came up with this from me

    Lemania/Cortina AMI on the bay Alistair -- 1/23/08

    I have never seen one of these...
    Looks like a Lemania Cortina with AMI credentials.
    Real or put together? 3H looks in a bad place?
    What do you reckon?



    Answer from our own Pascal


    Franken, and seen before on eBay
    That's a put together watch.
    The dial and caseback are genuine and probably come from the real watch's parts bin, but the hands come from an Orfina Porsche Design, and were mounted incorrectly anyway (the sweep second and 24 hour dial hands are mixed up).
    My advice: stay away from this thing!


    So I am sure he will add to this post also....
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    This particular watch has been kicking around on ebay Italy for a while. (There's another one in a different case which also appears from time to time). I did some homework on it some time back and came to the same conclusion as above.

    The one on p.583 on Konrad Knirim's book on German military timepieces is in a Tengler-type case (as all A.M.I. issue watches of this type should be), has no 3H on the dial, has LMC and a crest above the date and simply the word "Automatic" beneath. The caseback is engraved 6645-12-194-6642, the 12 indicating Germany but as it was for a Nato partner the back is also engraved A.M.I. for Aeronautica Militaire Italiana.

    Regards

    Jon'.

    P.S. Al' - can we move this thread to NSN 6645 for reference, once it has gone cold?

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    sure...will do...Pascal will no doubt pitch in and Neil (Flame) needs to see it too...
    #womw
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    Here are a couple of what I believe to be the real thing


    pic by orologio passioni user Jatucka


    pic by chronomania user Thibaut

    Note (amongst other things) the dial discrepancies

    3H all wrong, too thick and hitting the 5 index
    Wrong Lemania Logo, it does not extend far enough across the dial
    Eagle and AMI wrongly positioned in respect of the date window
    No white line between day and date
    No "T"s either side of swiss made
    Additional half hour markers for the 12-hr chrono subdial not present on the real one

    I could probably go on

    The original's case is, as expected, the Arctos / Tengler, bearing more similarity with the latter, with the 1-12 bezel scale identical to the Tengler, and the same white with lume centre hands.

    I hope this is of assistance

    Dave
    If it's Lemania-powered, I'm interested. Tool Chrono - interested. Dive Chrono - interested. Interesting - interested

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    Sorry, I didn't really post a conclusion on this.

    My conclusion (having looked a the listing) is that it is a total piece of fakery

    The dial is all wrong and has been manufactured to pass off as original
    The case is probably a Heuer one, but was also used elsewhere
    The caseback has been re-manufactured or engraved/stamped (see real one below, once again Thibaut's watch - confirmed by photos on Jean-Michels Lemania 5100 web-page)


    Not to be touched

    Dave
    If it's Lemania-powered, I'm interested. Tool Chrono - interested. Dive Chrono - interested. Interesting - interested

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    Default Perfect answer...

    Thanks Dave, AL , M (& all who contributed to this thread)...I had my suspicions that all was not quite right - but not enough knowledge to back it up - so I'm glad I flagged it for further debate here - I've certainly learnt something and hopefully someone else will now stumble on this thread and be saved from actually buying it !!!

    BTW - Does anyone ever flag these items to ebay ?

    Cheers
    Neil

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